Writing SG-1's voices

[aurora_novarum]

Since I am INSANE and signed up to do the tealc_ficathon on top of jacksamfriends and stargate_summer, I started thinking about what/who I write. And it made me think about who I write and when and how for ALL of SG-1 and how I write the characters.

I go in phases in my writing. Sometimes I'm very much Sam focused, other times Teal'c, other times Daniel...it's funny because even if I'm doing character focused fics, I'll tend to always have team moments if nothing else. Or if I'm writing "team" I'll try and give "moments" to each character. It must be the libra in me. Anyway...



Daniel Jackson
Daniel is my absolute favorite character of all the team and will get me to *read* a fic more often than not. But writing him... While I don't shy away from his point of view, I do enjoy writing "about" Daniel more that writing his pov. I started "Just a Scientist" partly because I couldn't bear to "whump" Daniel myself, but wasn't sure I was going to do Bill's POV all the way at first. I then found I liked doing the outsider perspective on him. I find I can relate to Daniel's expressions and movements and other people's observations of his words and actions are easier than writing Daniel's own perspective (because would he really think about how his face and movements are betraying his emotions?) Daniel has...layers to me, and I like keeping that hint of mystery to what he's really thinking. When I write his pov, I have to go through the maelstrom of thoughts and feelings in his head: Daniel thinks emotionally, and he thinks FAST. It's fun to play in his head, but it's exhausting.

Samantha Carter
I'm not sure how well I do Sam's voice, actually. I mean, I try and be true to her, but she intimidates the hell out of me for her techno-know-how since I have no science/engineering knowledge. I have a civilian's perspective of the military. But I do relate to Sam in being a professional in a male dominated arena and social settings. In fact, I find when I do infuse Sam with little personality quirks that are outside canon (not contradictory to, but extemporaneous), she is defaulted with what I like or may do. I hope this isn't just because she's "the girl" on the team. I don't hear Janet or Vala in my head this way. But Sam I feel connected to on a personal level.

Teal'c
Teal'c I stumbled into writing in one of my earliest stories because I saw a scene in Avalon 1, and his expressions just spoke to me as something to explore. And it shocked me how easily I could hear his voice when writing. I don't tend to think too much with Teal'c's tone outside of the plot. It flows naturally to me. Whether I get him right or not, I don't know. He doesn't sound like a Vulcan, or a Klingon. He's got a wicked sense of humor, a literal view of many aspects of the world, both a bone-weary history and an innocence at things. In truth, he should be damn intimidating to write. But I don't find him so. However, it wasn't until Fig's meme about Teal'c being awesome (she uses the term "pwnage"), that I realized I could only list about half my "teal'c related fics" because I focus on his introspection and angst as much as his humor and coolness aspects. So...I may have very warped ideas on Teal'c.

Jack O'Neill
Jack is the hardest character for me to write, and I'm still struggling when I find his voice. Reading a good Jack "voiced" fic is a beautiful gem I'm always greatly impressed with. It's a delicate balance because on the one hand you have a caustic and childlike sense of humor, but on the other there's an intelligent and dark feeling man. On the show, I tend to find there's more going on beneath the surface in any of Jack's expressions, but it's hard for me to pierce the veil to do justice to them. Jack is very calculating, but he's not self-conscious about it, so how he acts and speaks is almost an instinctual thing. Writing in his voice, it's hard to portray that without sounding clunky. His dialogue has to flow more than just checking boxes to "trees" and "oz" jokes, so maybe Jack's lack of self-analysis makes me analyze him MORE. I dunno.

Cameron Mitchell
Cameron isn't too difficult to write. I strangely have a better handle on him than Jack. He's got the wide-eyed optimistic joy and wonder factor--he always tends to see the glass half-full, but yet, he's still aware it's half a glass. He's been through too much in his past for there not to be some edge to him. But unlike Jack or Daniel, or even Teal'c with a mere expression, Cam lays it all out there. He's constantly thinking and speaking on his feet, with an eye for pop-culture trivia I can almost relate to. The trick is relaying the bouncy quality to him shown on screen to a prose concept without making him look silly. Sometimes I wonder if the way I portray the team's teasing of him sounds too harsh, because I'm not sure if the new guy but cared for teammate balance comes off in the story that well (then again, I'm not sure how well the writers portrayed that onscreen either).

Vala Mal Doran
It's no secret that Vala bugged the crap out of me in early Season Nine. When she asked Daniel in "Ties That Bind" "Miss me?" I yelled how he couldn't because she NEVER GOES AWAY! I still think Vala would've been better suited for a Harry-like role in swinging in and out of the SGC with new adventures. It's not that I don't like CB, or hated her per se. But I found she was an over the top character and would've been better in small doses. Why I am going on about this?

Because then I started to write about her in "Many Roads". It's not Vala's pov (heck, it's sort of not Daniel's), but I had to think about what makes her tick, because I won't write characters without being true to who they are, at least as best as I perceive it. And I realized how much depth and layering there was to her character...and how intriguing she was. I sympathized with Bridge's attraction to writing Vala dialogue. It's addictive. She comes up with the witty responses with no moral filter to stop her from saying them. But she has her own code...it's broad and grey and hard to figure out, but it's there. When Vala returned in S10, she had softened, but so had I in my reaction to her.

Jonas Quinn
I've only had Jonas in three of my fics, and one was more as a cameo, but I like him. I'm not sure how three dimensional I portray him. He has the bouncy exuberance of life like Cameron, but it's not filtered by the training and experiences of military people. He's young, he's smart, he's got a photographic memory, and loves food and the weather channel. Everything seems one part puzzle, one part magic to him. He's also a serious people-pleaser. I think after Season Seven, he's become more hardened and less naive, but he shares the idealism. I think I'm still working through my own ideas on Jonas, so I tend to write him clunkily, but there are moments his voice does ring clear.


I thought about naming the authors I think write really good Jack/Daniel/Sam/Teal'c/Cam/Vala/Jonas but I knew I'd invariably leave someone off and what I think is a good Daniel voice is someone else's OOC. Now that I've blathered on, how do others wrestle with their muse/voice in SG fic. How do *you* all see the characters in writing them and how do their voices sound in your heads? Do you find yourself nodding along that those are aspects you focus on in writing the team, or are you going "Aurora is so full of crap, that's not what the heart of X character is at all!" ;-)

Comments

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hm, interesting stuff here!

(And for the record, I do prefer "Teal'c is awesome" to "Teal'c pwns the universe," but it just seems to work out that way in the comments, heh.)

I'm with you on Daniel! Love him to pieces, love to write his POV, and still find it a challenge. ::squishes Daniel::

Sam - I don't know. I guess I've avoided writing from her POV when there's "real" science going on, and the only time I, er, pretended to be writing in her language, I shamelessly swiped stuff from research online and kept it as vague as possible. :) OTOH, when I'm writing about other aspects of Sam, she flows quite well. Or maybe I just think she does.

Teal'c - oh, yes, word with Teal'c. He should be impossible and somehow he flows. I haven't yet managed to write real introspection with him, though. That may be why a certain ficlet-by-request is taking so long. ;)

And again, word with Jack, who I want to get right and am reluctant to imagine that I can. I've written very little outside fluffy pieces from his POV, although my Alphabet Soup for him was good. I think. And it was anything but fluffy.

Can't write Mitchell. Can't write Vala. Haven't tried Jonas. Have I mentioned how much I love your ability to spread your squee with such inclusiveness to such a fantastic degree?

One other thing you're very good at, Aurora, is writing original characters and their perceptions of the team. You get that distant voice right.

I agree that it's not wise to try and create a "complete" list of authors with good character voices, but I can't help but say that Tallulah Rasa and Random get both Daniel and Jack's voices so perfect that I am always in awe. So goooooood. :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

OTOH, when I'm writing about other aspects of Sam, she flows quite well. Or maybe I just think she does.

Hee! See! That's what I'm talkin' about. I think I overanalyze and wonder if she's *too* easy. (which come to think of it, may be a Samantha-like trait. Maybe we're channeling her after all!)

I haven't yet managed to write real introspection with him, though.

Yes, am I weird for being so fascinated by it? I mean, an eyebrow says SO MUCH!

And again, word with Jack, who I want to get right and am reluctant to imagine that I can.

Sometimes he comes out easier than I think if trying to do his perspective, but fear is a big barrier. Also other times...like "Flights of Ingenuity" was supposed to be Jack's POV. It was another exercise to write his voice, but it never worked. As soon as I switched to Teal'c's pov, that story clicked for me. I think it was the right choice, but I also wonder if because Teal'c *is* easy for me, I gave up too soon.

I don't know, Jack's voice...when it's right, you know it, when it's wrong you know it, but trying to analyze how and what makes it that way...that's the question.

I'm interested in your saying you can't write Mitchell or Vala (as opposed to just never trying Jonas). If you don't mind saying, what do you think made them not "click" for you? Personal disconnect to S9 & 10? Their voices not sounding unique? Spreading the squee has been a curiosity factor as much as anything else, and I *do* genuinely love Cameron. He sold me at "Bullets bounce" into the like camp.

Multi-version team love is just how I roll. :-D

One other thing you're very good at, Aurora, is writing original characters and their perceptions of the team. You get that distant voice right.

Aw, thank you. I do love exploring outsider POV because to me it ironically makes the team more like real people. Others have lives and interests that may or may not intersect theirs. I don't know if it's a cheat because we have that somewhat already from the show though. That too comes naturally to me so I wasn't really thinking of it as a "p of v" per se.

I agree that it's not wise to try and create a "complete" list of authors with good character voices

Oh, I wouldn't dare to try for complete. ;-) Just thinking of listing a couple for each, but it is all subjective and even doing those couple I'd angst too much, so I figured I'd just dartboard myself. Heh.

It's funny you bring up Random, because I was thinking about her writing style in wondering about my view on the character voices. I love Random's stories. Her plot and characterization are extremely complex and rich. However, she writes Daniel and Jack in no way like I see them in my head. She focuses on aspects I would "peripherize" (it *could* be a word) in writing, and passes over other character traits that I would go after with an anvil. And yet even though it's not my perception of Jack and Daniel, her characterization is still recognizable to the show canon.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I'm using this icon to show that I know I'm probably being unfair. :) But no, Mitchell never worked for me. Vala even less so, although I do like how many people write them in fic. But the team - the team has always and forever, for me, been Jack and Daniel and Sam and Teal'c. Mitchell feels like an artificial plug-in in comparison, and Vala... no comment of Vala. ;)

Jonas, OTOH, I haven't tried. I haven't watched enough S6 to know how intrusive he would feel, in contrast to Daniel being there. I do know I resent quite a bit the many many fanfic writers who loved Daniel and hated the show for taking him away and demonized Jonas as an outlet for their frustrations, because it definitely colored my perceptions of the character when I was first reading fanfic (before I started watching the show, I mean). So no, I haven't tried writing him yet. Maybe after Redial does S6, I'll be interested to try.

Re Random: I have the same exact reaction that you have, in terms of what she picks up and what she doesn't. And it's entirely different from the aspects that Tallulah Rasa chooses to highlight and play with. And yet? Both work just right for me. The characters feel incredibly real when they write them, even if I may not nec'ly choose those aspects myself when I choose to try their voices.

It's the edges, I think. Too many people forget all the angles and edges and raw sharpness of Jack and Daniel's friendship. It's why I love them so much, because they click despite the contradictions. Am I making any sense?

Perhaps you shouldn't answer that. ;)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Well, at least you did TRY Mitchell and Vala (even with your own colored glasses). A lot of people adore classic team as the sole soul of SG-1. I guess the whole is more than the sum of its parts to me. But I did discover I can take most teams so long as they have Daniel (no idea about Teal'c-less team yet...and Sam may be tough to judge since I've known she was returning in S9).

Knowing Jonas through fanfic is a very scary characterization...especially that written during season six era when tempers were high. But who knows how you'll feel *when* you watch Season Six. :-D (Since I'm so Daniel-centered, I never even THOUGHT I'd write Jonas, and now three stories!)

I'm not overly familiar with Tallulah to accurately compare. But it is funny. And something about fanfics and metas that I find *fascinating* in how we can all see and explore so many different aspects of the same core product.

ETA: Something I just realized responding to a different comment. My writing Cam and Vala may also have to do with how/when I entered fandom. I only came in late Season 8. And started writing fanfic during that hiatus. Season 9 and 10 were "new/fresh" eps for me, and thus an influence on what I would write. Although I know and love classic team too, I had been watching seven years of it as a casual viewer (and not knowing such a thing as fandom existed). So...that may play a part in it too. IIRC, you mainlined Stargate and came into fandom after seeing it "all" on DVDs and/or seeing the fic? Even though you weren't too much after me when it comes to entering fandom, it could give a different perspective on everyone too. (Then again, I may be completely misremembering)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I had a very... odd introduction to SG-1. Which, admittedly, is par for the course for me.

In the OT forum at the LnC fanfic message boards, someone started a thread on Reckoning and Moebius when it first aired. I read it out of idle curiosity and became intrigued by the references to Daniel, especially what some called his journey from starry-eyed idealism to "Action Jackson." So I hunted down the transcripts online and started reading them... and read... and read... :)

Then I started hunting down actual eps, picking and choosing by which transcripts seemed most interesting. And started reading fanfic at the same time, and stumbled on stargatefan as one of the first archives I read (which is why I grumbled on the Jonas thing above). By the time I finished reading all the transcripts and watching a dozen odd eps, I'd fallen in love with the show, unquestionably.

By that time, about the first six eps of S9 had aired already. So I hunted down those, all excited at the idea of being part of a fandom in real time!

...And was really, really disappointed. Although, come to think of it - I wonder if I would have been more kindly disposed towards S9 SG-1 if Daniel hadn't been sporting face fuzz? :) (Don't get me wrong - my own husband has a beard, and I like him juuuuust fine. But on Daniel? Really bad.)

But my point is that a large part of me wanted to like the new version of SG-1, if only to be part of the excitement as it happened. And to be fair to Mitchell, he wasn't the problem as much as the lack of Jack and the inclusion of Vala all at the same time. The Ori storyline, which read (to me) as a thinly-disguised swipe at world politics and as boring antagonists, didn't help all that much. But I've never engaged him as a character. Not sure why.

Regarding Jonas - I want to get to know him, and I'm looking forward, in a vague sort of way, to watching S6 to find out if I'm going to like him. But I really do want to Redial S6 with the comm, because I think it'll go better for me than watching the eps without the online feedback. Squee is contagious, y'know!

And something about fanfics and metas that I find *fascinating* in how we can all see and explore so many different aspects of the same core product.

And I love that, yes. That the Daniel I see and love is slightly different from Daniel and Tallulah Rasa's Daniel and Random's Daniel and Aby's Daniel and everyone else's Daniel. But much as some people's characterization might surprise me, I'd say that if a story clicks, then even if it's not an aspect of Daniel I'd write or even expect, then that author is speaking to the core of the character. I do hope that makes sense. :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Cracks me up how you found Stargate through LnC.

Don't get me wrong - my own husband has a beard, and I like him juuuuust fine. But on Daniel? Really bad.

Yes. I agree. MS looks very handsome with or without beard. But for Daniel...just looked...odd to me.

But that's interesting what you say about Cam. He is more unstated as a presence--and to be fair, his characterization was a lot of flailing and inconsistent in Season Nine. For some, they were predisposed to accept him or loved him in spite of that (or because it was Browder), for other people it prevented connecting to him.

I hope you like jonas too (or at least Season Six with or without him).

And I love that, yes. That the Daniel I see and love is slightly different from Daniel and Tallulah Rasa's Daniel and Random's Daniel and Aby's Daniel and everyone else's Daniel. But much as some people's characterization might surprise me, I'd say that if a story clicks, then even if it's not an aspect of Daniel I'd write or even expect, then that author is speaking to the core of the character. I do hope that makes sense. :)

It does to me. And I'm still not sure if it's so much our views are the same of the core of the character or the writer's so good, they've convinced me their view of the character is right. Perhaps a combination thereof?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I've always been very monofannish in terms of online activities. So yeah, I needed LnC to introduce me to SG-1! :)

And I'm still not sure if it's so much our views are the same of the core of the character or the writer's so good, they've convinced me their view of the character is right.

That is a delightfully twisty way of looking at things. Is it the good writers that get the characterizations right, or the good writing that makes the characterization seem right? I'm going to have to think about that one for a while.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I think you're right about Random--I really enjoy her stories, and they're very well written, but I would never write Jack and Daniel as she does. She tends to show them when they're at odds--and yet sometimes they understand each other and I'm still going "what?"

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes, precisely my reaction. "How did you get there?" and at the same time "Yes, that's them!" And I keep coming back for more, even though I'd never write them in the same fashion.

[suzannemarie.livejournal.com]

Much to my surprise, my JackSam fic is shaping up to be from Sam's POV. I love her to bits but I find her very difficult to write--for similar reasons to the ones you have. The science angle is not even close to my bag so I have a lot of difficulty knowing what to do with her.

Daniel is little difficult for me to write for different reasons. From a perspective of temperament and general philosophies, I feel like I understand and identify with him. What often gives me trouble is that I think that I regard him with a little more skepticism than some fans do, so I tend to second guess a lot and feel a lot more tentative about what I do with him. (I have a sneaking unease that my FIAD wip is turning out to be a mess. There may be begging for help sometime this year.)

Teal'c, to my surprise, has turned out to be a lot of fun for me to write. He intimidated me a lot at first because I didn't really know what to do with him. Once I started trying, I found that there's a lot to dig into and have fun with. Still waters run deep, as they say, and that's a lot of fun to play with.

Jack remains my favorite to write. I think I dance on the line--and probably over the line--of Mary Sueing him sometimes, but I really love the character and his many facets. He's deceptive, because he presents himself as simple and uncomplicated, but the more you dig, the more there that's, well, there.

As I've been writing this out, I think I've figured out part of the reason why I think Teal'c and Jack are easier (or at least easier for me) to write than Sam or Daniel. I think Sam and Daniel are a little more what you see is what you get. The person that presents on the surface is pretty much the person that's there when you get to know them better. I'm not saying that they're simple or uncomplicated--I think there's plenty of depth to both of them. And I think they're very interesting. But I do think that their general outlines are pretty clear. Jack and Teal'c both present as straightforward, sort of meat and potatoes kind of guys. On one level they are. But there's a lot beneath the surface of both of them. Some things that we know. Some things are hinted at and explored in cannon. But I think their general outlines aren't necessarily so clearly and sharply defined as the others. I think there's enough mystery that remains about them as individuals that allows for a bit more interpretive freedom with them.

I'm not sure how much sense the above paragraph makes. And someone else can likely look at the same four characters and have a perspective that's completely flipped from mine. But that's how they present to me.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

The science angle is not even close to my bag so I have a lot of difficulty knowing what to do with her.

Yes, scienceSam is very intimidating because in *that* respect I very much relate to Jack.

Magnets!

What often gives me trouble is that I think that I regard him with a little more skepticism than some fans do, so I tend to second guess a lot and feel a lot more tentative about what I do with him.

Hmm, skepticism is interesting. It could give you a fresher and real perspective on him. Let's face it, Daniel has his fair share of bad characterization in fic as well. (I do tend to read badDaniel characterization with more tolerance than podpeople for other characters--I guess I will take him any way I can get him). Even as I try to write in one char's perspective, I will often be mentally paralleling the perspective of whoever else is in the scene. Even if I don't write it, I know what the other characters are doing or thinking. Maybe you can switch out a bit to see if writing from someone else's pov [even if the character may not ultimately be there] to be a check on the actions and thoughts...a counterpoint will help you balance out what you want him to do? I may be completely talking out of my ass here, I don't know. :-D

But you know you can always tackle me with wip flailing.

Teal'c, to my surprise, has turned out to be a lot of fun for me to write. He intimidated me a lot at first because I didn't really know what to do with him. Once I started trying, I found that there's a lot to dig into and have fun with. Still waters run deep, as they say, and that's a lot of fun to play with.

YES! That's it exactly!!!

He's deceptive, because he presents himself as simple and uncomplicated, but the more you dig, the more there that's, well, there.

That's what intimidates me about him, but I can see how it's a mecca for for people who know and hear the character voice. And I think that's what makes it so interesting to me about writing him and Teal'c. Because Teal'c and Jack are very similar in the respect you mean, and while I revel in writing Teal'c, Jack still seems "slippery" to me.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Much to my surprise, my JackSam fic is shaping up to be from Sam's POV.

Um... My Jack-Sam story seems to have morphed into a team story... about Daniel. *sigh* Well, it is what it is... At least there's a big chunk in the middle with only Sam and Jack. ;)

[fabrisse.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding like someone who should spend quality time in a padded room, I tend to start with dialogue when I write. Which means I'm listening to the characters have a conversation and then figuring out what the story is around the conversation.

My Teal'c's all right. I'm very weak on Sam and Janet. Never written Jonas, but don't hate him.

Would it be rude to ask your opinion on whether I do well with Jack? Because I think I use his POV more often than anyone else.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding like someone who should spend quality time in a padded room, I tend to start with dialogue when I write. Which means I'm listening to the characters have a conversation and then figuring out what the story is around the conversation.

No, I tend to think that way too. I'll think of part of a scene. Often dialogue snatches or a few action moments or perhaps an "internal dialogue" and that's the build up of my
story. That's my hook to writing the fic.

My Teal'c's all right. I'm very weak on Sam and Janet.

If I started doing my secondary characters, I'd be writing this meta into tomorrow. :-) But I think I'm not as strong on Janet as I could be. But the one time I made her central to a story, I was also writing in an odd/restrictive style, so it's hard to gauge. For some reason, as much as I adore her and like having her pop in for fics, my muse shies away from being inspired to write stories focused on her.

(but clearly you need to write more Teal'c. Heh.)

Would it be rude to ask your opinion on whether I do well with Jack? Because I think I use his POV more often than anyone else.

LOL. My view of your Jack to take with grains of salt. I think you focus a lot on Jack as a serious career military man with a rich backstory (usually only hinted at, but still very present in making him a 3D character). The humor is assumed and used at times, but since you give internal thoughts, we as audience get to see your sharper focus on the strong and emotionally bare Jack. That's the part that's closed off in the onscreen expressions familiar to all of us. I think my bias is showing in that I much prefer exploring that oft unseen view than more of the light joking banter we already know. Your writing of Jack has influenced my perspective of him as a character. Well, except for the fact you often write him as romantically involved with Daniel, heh.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I almost always start with dialogue; in fact, if I look back at my first SG-1 story, it's almost like a script. It's all dialogue, with a teeny little bit of description thrown in (but not much more than stage direction).

[nandamai]

I am a very aural person. My head is a noisy place. I re-hear conversations I've had in real life, and I hear the voices of three-quarters of the original SG1 very clearly when I'm writing. I feel like I have them down pretty well, though I've definitely made mistakes. (I don't hear all the characters I write in fanfic. The Matrix, for example; I never got Neo's voice right and I was miles from the ballpark with Trinity's.) When I'm stuck on a plot point in a story, I will sit down and just write stream of concsiousness in 1st person from one of the characters, and 90% of the time it gets me out of the jam.

I think Teal'c's voice is kind of a trick question. I hear him, and I know what he's going to say most of the time. But I think that's partially due to his having a very small vocabulary on the show. He says things over and over, so his intonation (like his eybrows) is drilled into our brains. Actually getting Teal'c is harder than getting his voice, much more so than with the others. I tried to write a fic from Teal'c's POV once and it wasn't even like pulling teeth, it was like a black hole. Nothing. And it was for a ficathon, so I never got a chance to go back and do it right.

Daniel is the one out of the four who gives me fits. I don't hear him most of the time. I have to put a lot of effort into writing dialogue for him, and dialogue is usually easiest for me. It's odd, because I share most of his interests and some of his education, and my personality is closer to his than to any of the others. I think perhaps our worldviews are very different.

I have no clue with Cam and Vala.

In fact, I find when I do infuse Sam with little personality quirks that are outside canon (not contradictory to, but extemporaneous), she is defaulted with what I like or may do.

I think, not that I'm trying to get all Obi-Wan on you, I think this is one of the easiest things to do as a writer, and something we have to work against. I once had teenage Sam thinking that her favorite TV shows were Nova and Magnum, P.I., and Magnum was entirely me, not Sam. No doubt there are many other examples in my stories.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

When I'm stuck on a plot point in a story, I will sit down and just write stream of concsiousness in 1st person from one of the characters, and 90% of the time it gets me out of the jam.

Oooh! That's a cool idea!

He says things over and over, so his intonation (like his eybrows) is drilled into our brains. Actually getting Teal'c is harder than getting his voice, much more so than with the others. I tried to write a fic from Teal'c's POV once and it wasn't even like pulling teeth, it was like a black hole. Nothing. And it was for a ficathon, so I never got a chance to go back and do it right.

Aw, about the ficathon. And yes, when talking about Teal'c's voice, I do mean his introspection and personality (and I still think I may have overbalanced it in your team ficathon story where Teal'c decided he wanted a whole damn subplot).

But while Teal'c was a black hole for you, you're fantastic at writing Jack. For me, Teal'c's perspective usually rings clear in my head, but Jack's I second-guess and flail over. It's like suzannemarie and I were discussing above, the characters are somewhat similar in that respect of having audible touch points on the surface, but a lot more layers underneath.

It's odd, because I share most of his interests and some of his education, and my personality is closer to his than to any of the others.

Yes. Although I'm better at dialoguing Daniel more than thinking Daniel. But his brain is almost as intimidating as Sam's sometimes. But that's how I feel about Sam re: personality.

I think, not that I'm trying to get all Obi-Wan on you, I think this is one of the easiest things to do as a writer, and something we have to work against. I once had teenage Sam thinking that her favorite TV shows were Nova and Magnum, P.I., and Magnum was entirely me, not Sam. No doubt there are many other examples in my stories.

Well, we know she watched MacGyver. ;-) It's just the little things I extrapolate and connect with with Sam. For example, your recent meta about "Affinity", I *completely* connected with Sam blatting to the guys (not just thinking, but saying it to two of her best friends), and some other things, like liking the taste of diet soda better. Yes, that's very true though. There's a lot of ways Sam is different, but it's something I worry about.

Although I still want to use that line DeeDee McCall said in "Hunter" someday about Sam's cooking about the four food groups. "The four food groups: carry out, order-in, frozen, and canned."

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

I pretty much never go anywhere that could be construed as head-shrinky and thoughtful with my fics, so the ability to write a character's dialog is a lot more useful to me than actually understanding why they are the way they are. I know a lot of fans spend a long time analysing everything characters say and do in order to have the most accurate picture possible of what's really going on in the characters' heads...and I find posts about this kind of thing fascinating because it never occurs to me to even wonder about most of the stuff people bring up. I'm usually too busy going "Ha, that last line was really funny! I like it when Daniel makes a face! Hee!" *fails at being serious fangirl*

But as far as how I go about writing different characters: the more a character dialog style and personality resembles mine, the easier time I have writing them, unsurprisingly. Jack is a wise-ass who compartmentalizes liek whoa, and I am a wise-ass who compartmentalizes liek whoa, so writing him is usually a cinch for me.

For the same reason, I have a REALLY HARD time writing Daniel sometimes because he's so much more emotional and idealistic and concerned than I am. I understand where he's coming from on an academic level most of the time but I usually don't get why he chooses to communicate and react the way he does, which makes him fun to watch but hard to write when he's doing his Impassioned Anthropologist thing. I can't write serious!Daniel, only sarcastic!Daniel. Sarcasm I understand. Seriousness is puzzling to me.

I had a hard time with Sam at first, but now she seems to be my favorite POV to write, for some reason. Not really because I understand her any better than anyone else, though, because I don't. I think she's awesome but honestly I think I like writing for her POV because doing so requires the smallest number of filters between what's happening and how she perceives and portrays what's happening. Jack can't just tell you what's happening, he has to add snark, which is fun but also work. Daniel is the same only substitute "commentary and inscrutible Daniel-type brainings" for "snark." Teal'c is good at just giving you the facts, ma'am, but he gives them to you in elaborate syntax and with lots of big words and no contractions. Sam seems like she pretty much knows what's going on and doesn't really need to add anything. So writing Sam POV is Marie going "I'm too lazy to work really hard on this."

Teal'c dialog was always easy for me, but writing from his POV scared me silly. Once I did it in "Sufficient Illumination," though, I was all "This is so much fun! Ha ha! I get to use enormous words in narration! Go me!!" It's fun to see things through him.

I'm trying to think what I do when I'm having trouble "hearing" a character's voice. Honestly, it boils down to the mental equivalent of straining to hear something just out of earshot. That and writing my Arguments With Fictional Characters. Those help a lot more than they should, sometimes. So yeah, I try to eavesdrop on them and yell at them and then they talk to me. I may have the most dysfunctional muse/author relationship ever.

Wow. My thoughts on yaoi writing SG-1, let me show you them. Apparently I only have opinions about the classic team, though I've written Cam, Vala, and Jonas at least once each. *shrug*

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

This comment is made of awesome and why you are one of my favorite fandom people ever. I'm just grinning and laughing while reading this (and saying lots of YES! That's completely true!)

Um, serious reply to your quasi-serious reply to my navel gazingness...

I can see how you're relating the characters to your own personality and extrapolating as writing them, but you still hold the core of them as true to the on screen.

So writing Sam POV is Marie going "I'm too lazy to work really hard on this."

You remember you're saying this to one of your betas from "The Grey" right? ;-) I would not say your characterizing/writing Sam is "lazy". But I do understand your point about filters. She's straight analytical in her approach to everything, so you get the clearest objective sense for a lot of plot focused things with Sam.

It's enormous fun to see things through Teal'c's POV.

Those help a lot more than they should, sometimes.

Yes, sometimes they do me too, and you inspired them. Although sometimes I get so focused ont hat fourth wall relationship, I break down in doing the story. Bad muse! No cookie!

Hee about classic team. I've just realized. I only entered fandom end of S8 and started writing fanfic during hiatus/early S9, so that may have influenced me to write NewTeam more.

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

You remember you're saying this to one of your betas from "The Grey" right? ;-)

What's funny is that that fic was originally supposed to be Jack POV because I thought that would be easiest. But it really wanted to be Sam POV, and I fought it until I realized that whoever I picked for POV would be the person through whom we saw the Accepted's test. And then I fled from Jack and clung to Sam for all I was worth because I realized that I would rather eat a live toad than try and portray the inside of Jack's head during the test because I was pretty sure he was going to completely lose it at only Jack can do and I was terrified of writing that. So see, I am totally lazy. And a coward. But it worked it, I like Sam's POV on that fic. *grin*

[beanpot.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...

I find Teal'c the easiest to write. He just flows and I don't have to wrestle with him and sometimes I feel like I "get" him more than others.

Sam is also easy to write. If I need science stuff, I go to my science back up team.

Jack I can take or leave in that sometimes he is okay, and other times, not so much.

Cam...sometimes I feel like I can write him and other times I have to do some serious edit to prevent him from sounding like a stereotypical redneck.

Vala...I don't know if I've written her enough to go there. Same as Jonas. Oddly enough, the only time I've really written them is in the same fic.

Daniel. I can't write Daniel. I don't even know how to start writing Daniel - he baffles me. Plus people are so *ardent* about him, I am terrified of getting him wrong.

I also like to explore the "others" - Hammond especially. Finally, Granma Mitchell. She rocks my characterization world.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Isn't it awesome to have a science backup team? Although I seem to break aby's brain a lot with inane questions.

I love your Jonas & Vala. I swear those are my favorite stories of yours (and some of my go-to favorite stories). Heh.

Daniel...people are ardent about him. (As many are with Jack). Then again...a lot of people write Daniel OOC, but they're popular stories all the same, so *shrug*, you can always try. (Says the girl intimidated by Jack).

Writing others is AWESOME. And you've made such a wonderful real character with Grandma Mitchell. :-)

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Isn't it awesome to have a science backup team? Although I seem to break aby's brain a lot with inane questions.

But we alwasy find an answer!

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

It should be apparent to anyone who has read my fics that Daniel is the man! At least for me. I remarked to starting-gate the other day, that I tend to think of Daniel's mind process as not being quite linear. He goes off on tangents, always arrives where he originally intended, and usually far ahead of other folks.

I find Daniel quite easy to write because I 'hear' him so clearly in my mind. I do mostly dialogue because that, frankly, is what I'm best at. I suck at action scenes and background so those are usually pretty bare-bones.

I like to write Jack, too, because he covers so many different ranges of motion and you can always count on him as the character on whom to 'bounce' other people's anger or angst or horror. You just have to be careful not to caricature him; it is dangerously easy to fall into this trap. Don't make him too much of the son-of-a-bitch or dumb-as-a-post. WE know he cares deeply for the people whom he loves and I like to show that part of him.

Sam is the one for whom I simply cannot be satisfied with my writing. I've only done a few and I'm not terribly pleased with any of them. I try not to make her too 'math-y' or 'science-y' but if you don't show enough of her intelligence, then you do a disservice to the awesome genius she truly is.

Teal'c was initially pretty hard, but once I learned his 'cadence' he practically rolls for me. I adore doing Daniel and Teal'c because this is the relationship that initially hooked me on Stargate. I came for RDA and stayed for these two.

I've never tried Jonas and only done limited Cameron. Vala, I've only ever done with Daniel because I just like the fact that she brought Daniel to a different level of emotion.

BTW, I lurve your fics!!

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Daniel totally does. (Actually, as anyone who's IMd with me might notice, so do I). Yes, you are totally a sweet Daniel girl.

Writing action v dialogue is a whole different meta because I tend to do exposition/description dump and then get to dialogue. It's a weakness in my fics I try and break out of, but it's one of the most difficult.

I like to write Jack, too, because he covers so many different ranges of motion and you can always count on him as the character on whom to 'bounce' other people's anger or angst or horror.

You know, that's an excellent point. Action character v. reaction character to a particular scenario and how POV can influence what you're wanting to do, or what you want to influence. That can make the voices sound "right" or "wrong" as much as the general characterization. Yes, Jack is easy to caricature (it happens to them all somewhat), but he's also the spoke by which you can gauge the others.

Sam's role (and Daniel's sometimes too) as exposition technobabble person on the team can be a hindrance as much as a help to write her as a character because the tech-geek stuff makes up a lot of what she is, but not all of it.

Daniel and Teal'c is one of the bestest and most complex relationships for Stargate.

Vala's relationship with Daniel is very different than anyone else's, imho. It was writing her bantering with him that really made her "click" for me.

BTW, I lurve your fics!!

Aw, thank you!

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Daniel draws me to fic and I usually write about him in some way, but I feel my strongest characters are Jack and Teal'c. There is something about me that the characters I am least like are the ones I tend to write the best. It's like the distance helps give me proper perspective. I hear their voices more clearly.

This is not a hard and fast rule since it doesn't necessarily apply to other fandoms. But I find it's the case for SG-1.

Interesting analysis :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

There is something about me that the characters I am least like are the ones I tend to write the best. It's like the distance helps give me proper perspective. I hear their voices more clearly.

Oh, that's a point too. Maybe that's my problem writing Sam and wanting to do looking at Daniel. The perspective is clearer...

*mmm, looking at Daniel...what were we talking about?

[nomadicwriter]

I find Jack by far the easiest of SG-1 to write, because he has the most distinctive and idiosyncratic voice. (I think I'm the opposite of many people; I'm very very attuned to the rhythm of people's speech, so the more complicated and quirky a voice, the easier I find it to pick up. It's like it provides me a more detailed 'pattern' to work from, if that makes sense?) Teal'c is possibly my favourite, though, because he has such a powerful voice; very dignified and measured yet also dramatic, so writing in his POV, even if nothing much is going on, is like writing a speech - all maximum impact sentences.

Daniel's voice I find easy enough to capture because of the distinctive babbling delivery, but I don't really like writing from his POV. I think it's because he's not really an observer character - he's a force of personality, in there smashing at other people with his opinion instead of sitting back and listening to them, and that tends to work better narratively when viewed from the outside.

Sam I find is the hardest of the classic team to capture because she doesn't really have any obvious vocal quirks to tap into, so it's characterisation doing all the work. You can ramble about nothing in your Jack voice and still have it sound like him, but Sam voice has to be expressing ideas that are quintessential Sam for it to sound like her and not be too generic. I find it much easier to write Sam in one of her rare cranky moods than just standard Sam behaviour.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I find Jack by far the easiest of SG-1 to write, because he has the most distinctive and idiosyncratic voice.

Oh, interesting. Jack's voice is definitely quirky, but that's part of my issue when I try to write him. Timing is everything with Jack's comments and a perfect bon mot here can just sound like stale dialogue there. It's why I'm always impressed with good Jack fic.

Yes, Teal'c's maximum impact sentences are wonderful. That...I still struggle with sometimes. Because I think Teal'c is very eloquent and wordy *in his head* but a lifetime of knowing to keep his mouth shut means he measures his spoken words carefully.

I think it's because he's not really an observer character - he's a force of personality, in there smashing at other people with his opinion instead of sitting back and listening to them, and that tends to work better narratively when viewed from the outside.

Yes! That's very much it! I think it also goes back to something I noticed when chatting with sg_wonderland above. Sometimes it makes a difference about "reactive" characters versus "action" characters, which I'm not sure I'm explaining clearly. But different from protagonist/antagonist. To have a narrator, you also have to have an "observer", even if the observations are flawed (hopefully they are to one extent or another). Daniel often observes, processes, and acts/reacts so fast it's hard to have him narrate it all. And as you say, his personality can sometimes make him the best choice to note something, or the most stubborn and singularly focused. (It's why I love him and find him frustrating).

I'm fascinated by your observations of Sam's lack of vocal quirks.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Despite the fact that most fics I've written are Sam's PoV, she's actually kind of hard for me. But not in the way that's really obvious. See, I hear her too clearly and I'm really comfortable crawling around inside her head. The problem I always run into is to make sure she keeps sounding like Sam and not like me. :) Because it's very, very easy for me to blur the line too much and let her slip into my vocabulary. (In some ways, "Substance" was totally cheating.)

I have no idea if that makes sense.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Hee, kind of the opposite issue of moonshayde above. But at least all the technobabble sounds right to you (or you know where it's wrong). That's a big Sam hump you've got going for you.

You'll just look like Sam expert. :-)

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh, LJ ate my comment.

Um, but, in summation, yes about the Daniel thinking FAST - that's one of the reasons I find him so very difficult to write. He kills me.

And I find Jack easiest, except his military/command side, which I would love to get better at doing, because I think it's a significant part of him.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Bad LJ! No cookie!

I agree with you about Daniel and see nomadicwriter's comment just above. That's an interesting observation too. I *love* Daniel, but his brain is a hard place to be sometimes.

Yes, the military/command side is a very big part of Jack...and I think one of my favorite aspects of his character.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I agree with you about writing from Daniel's point of view: there's so much going on in his head it can be hard to pack it in.

When I get a story idea, for whatever reason, it usually comes complete with the point of view. Sometimes it's obvious: "Better Than Revenge" is Teal'c's take on the events of "Shades of Grey," so it has to be Teal'c. Sometimes, though, it's not, and I don't have a story until I have the point of view. I played around with some of the scenes in "Charades" for months in my head, but it wasn't a story until suddenly I knew it was all from Sam's point of view, and then the rest of the plot just started to fit into place.

What's really hard is that occasionally I realize I need a different point of view: either I've got more than one point of view in a story and I have to rewrite a scene from a different point of view, or I have to introduce a new point of view. I usually end up wondering if those worked at all--I've had betas (mostly my husband) catch moments when I left in a sentence from the original point of view! Augh! (I had written a good chunk of "The Unrelenting Past" when I realized it needed to be partly about John Sheppard, and therefore partly from his point of view; I realize I'm digressing, but he was the one I've found hardest to write, harder than any SG-1 characters--perhaps because I feel fairly little for him.) Am I the only one who ever does this?

I haven't written Jonas yet. I like him, but I don't have a story for him. I also haven't done Vala's point of view, for the same reason. I did Cam's a little. Mostly, though, I've written the original four. I don't really have a preference; the story decides for me, somehow.

[beanpot.livejournal.com]

I like him, but I don't have a story for him.

I really, really like this way of looking at things. That might be why I love writing Teal'c because I see so many stories for him that haven't been told or could be told, and yet for Daniel - there are so many stories told.

**wanders off to ponder**

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Point of view and tense and style are all things I like to play with and play up sometimes. Often character's voices sound strong to me, but I'm not sure if it's for a fic or just a scene in a fic.

Like my Shades of Grey story was purposefully (if not entirely successfully) done from a limited outside narrator of the team--trying not to get particularly in the player's heads. Or the pov won't work right.

I can't speak to Sheppard, but I know he's the character I feel the least connection to on either of the Stargates.

But yes, like Bean said, having the story for the character's voice is the biggest part of writing the character right.

[http://users.livejournal.com/traycer_/]

Wonderful thoughts on character! And I agree with you on Vala, except that I loved her character from the very beginning. :) I haven't written a fic with her in it, mainly because I don't know her that well, but I think I will at least give it a try one of these days. She is such a great character!

You know, the first fic where I switched POVs so that everyone could have a chance, I was so sure Teal'c would be the hardest to write. But he was actually one of the easiest, next to Jack of course. :) I just took in his mannersims and his thought process, mixed them together and it worked out just fine.

It turned out that Daniel was my problem child in that story. I had a very hard time finding his voice. He has since become an easier POV to write, but for awhile there, I was all for giving up on him. *g*

As for Jack, Colonel Jack is the easiest for me to write. I don't claim to always have his character down pat, but he is definitely easier. Probably for all the reasons you listed in your post. He has a warrior mentality, like Teal'c, yet is vulnerable and has his own set of insecurities that I just love to explore. As for General Jack, I have a tendency to pretend he hadn't changed, and write him in the same way as Colonel Jack. I've turned a blind eye, so to speak. :D

And Sam. Do you know that I see Sam as a strong character with a feminine side, yet extremely unsure of her self in her personal life? She is in her element while she is working or doing the things she loves, but I don't know. She just seems to push people away. *shrugs* I don't know, sometimes I think I portray her wrong anyway.

I figured that Sam, Jack and Teal'c were easier to write because they were all warriors, and somehow I could relate to that. Nowadays, I know better. I write their characters based on their traits and backgrounds. I become the character that I write, and let the muse free.

How do *you* all see the characters in writing them and how do their voices sound in your heads?

This is a very interesting question. Everyone sees something different in the characters, and because of their preconceived notions, they tend to think that someone else's characterization can't be right. Take my Hammond story, for example. Someone wrote a comment saying that Hammond would never have participated in a massacre in Vietnam, even if ordered to, while I am of the opinion that we all make mistakes, and Hammond has said himself that he always "follows his orders". Her Hammond was born a saint, while my Hammond did some pretty horrible things in his lifetime, but learned from each and everything he did.

The same thing goes with a few writers who have Sam wringing her hands and going weak at the knees when Jack is badly hurt. Sam Carter?? lol Are we watching the same TV show?

But yeah. You pretty much have everything laid out so neatly on these characters. We write what we see, and hope that others read what we see.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Someone wrote a comment saying that Hammond would never have participated in a massacre in Vietnam, even if ordered to, while I am of the opinion that we all make mistakes, and Hammond has said himself that he always "follows his orders". Her Hammond was born a saint, while my Hammond did some pretty horrible things in his lifetime, but learned from each and everything he did.

I believe that was me. My point was more one of canon than that Hammond was 'born a saint', and that within the context of a comedic adventure show, and in that the team are presented as the good guys, I didn't see Hammond participating in such an event. Flawed, as they all are, yes, but not capable of criminally dishonerable actions. I was new to LJ at the time and didn't realize that it is not uncommon to take the show outside it's PG-13 nature in fanfic.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Wonderful thoughts on character! And I agree with you on Vala, except that I loved her character from the very beginning. :)

Vala is a character that tends to evoke strong emotions one way or the other. And if you like her, then you'll *love* writing for her. It's actually kind of addictive in a way.

Teal'c is an intimidating guy, but he's fascinating to think through his process and I find it's helped me give him a voice even when he's not much in stories.

I had a very hard time finding his voice. He has since become an easier POV to write, but for awhile there, I was all for giving up on him. *g*

No, don't give up! Daniel can be "moody" for me as a character muse. (sometimes Sam too), so I can sympathize.

Nowadays, I know better. I write their characters based on their traits and backgrounds. I become the character that I write, and let the muse free.

Yes, exactly. Get into their heads and see how it works out for them. I even do this in wiki articles I write. Try and tell the bio from the character's viewpoint...but still point out flaws (It's how I got through Kinsey's, heh).

Everyone sees something different in the characters, and because of their preconceived notions, they tend to think that someone else's characterization can't be right.

Yes. That's very true. There's canon and then there's extrapolations, and they all make up the quiltwork that's part of what makes fanfic so fascinating.

Do Sam and Cameron know each other from the academy/childhood/just meeting each other? There's all sorts of ways to take it (and canon's been vagueishly inconsistent). What is Hammond's background (and does he have daughter(s) or son(s)? What's Vala's real backstory? How did Sam learn to pick locks and grow to love motorcycles? These minor facts you as author think about also help in filling gaps and become a focus of your characterization.

But yeah. You pretty much have everything laid out so neatly on these characters. We write what we see, and hope that others read what we see.

Even viewing an episode (and something I've been fascinated with in redial chats or recaps), people will notice of pick out different things and see them completely different ways. It's also why I love to read/hear my shipper and slasher friends' interpretations of scenes. Because...yeah, see TOTALLY different things sometimes.

And when other people look and say, yes, that's what I'm seeing too, or that sounds just like how they sound to me, that's the Stanley Cup to me. They're either seeing it like you did, or you've convinced them enough that your view works as their view.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Well, this is interesting...

My first thought is while I know who I fine the easiest to write, that has little to do with who I might write most sucessfully. ;) Only the reader can tell me that, and it's pretty subjective as characterization takes a lot of twists and turns out there.

I identify most with Daniel, and I find him the easiest to write. I usually have a pretty clear idea of what I think Daniel would think in a given situation. Whether I'm correct about that is something entirely different.

I'm fine with Jack when it's adventure or comedy, but I have a lot more trouble when it's serious. I make him talk to much, or at least I did in a story I'm working on currently. I had to cut out a big chunk of his dialogue and give most of the rest of it to Sam.

Sam. I have a lot of trouble with her. Part of it's the science. Part of it is a serious affinity for sarcasm. Part of it's that I just seem to have trouble writing female characters--beyond weird, I know, what with me being female and all. I have even more trouble writing Janet.

Teal'c is tough, but the rules are pretty clear. My big trouble with him is keeping him involved, especially when there's nothing Goa'uldy going on.

I usually know what to have Cam say, that part's easy, but it can take weeks to get the accent right, especially if the story is from his point of view, like the last one. There just aren't many southerners to observe up here in Canada.

(Note: does anyone know what the cat just walked on that made me not be able to insert text in previously written text without overwriting it? This is a problem!)

I'm not a big Vala fan, although I figure I better find a way to write her. I find season 9/10 and movie Daniel very intriguing, and without writing Vala, I'm very limited in terms of time frame. I'm thinking of going the 'Where's Waldo' route, and having her on a different spurious mission at the beginning of each late season story. ;)

I've got a Jonas story in the works, thanks to a ficathon, and I'm not finding it very easy to keep him from being rather generic. That will have to change, and quickly

Characters seem to be about the same for me, whether I'm writing in their point of view of outside it. My instinct is to write entirely from the third person, and that's what I did for my first 3 stories, or so. I stopped doing that when I realized that no one else wrote that way and that it is more challenging in a lot of ways, too. I think I'll try another third person story one of these days, though...

Addendum: the test problem went away, must have been post related. And I had a though about Daniel. One of the things that makes him difficult is that he changes not only from season to season, but occasionally, episode to episode. It's one of the things I love most about writing hime, but can lead to terrible errors in characterization if you're,say, watching a lot of season three while writing season eight.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

My first thought is while I know who I fine the easiest to write, that has little to do with who I might write most successfully. ;) Only the reader can tell me that, and it's pretty subjective as characterization takes a lot of twists and turns out there.

That's the rub. Sometimes, but not always, the story that flows easily is often the most "successful", which can be very surprising when authors bleed, sweat and toil over others. Other times it has no bearing. I disagree that "only" the reader could determine sucess, but it is an important gauge that you as author have communicated a character so it's recognizable to your audience as the same one they know.

Because that's the trick unique to fanfic. It's not just writing your characters/your plots/taking people on your journey. With fanfic, you're taking a concept and characters brought to life already by others and putting them in new adventures and having it be "true" to what other people have observed.

I identify most with Daniel, and I find him the easiest to write. I usually have a pretty clear idea of what I think Daniel would think in a given situation. Whether I'm correct about that is something entirely different.

Right. That goes into what some people were discussing above. Sometimes that makes it easier for people to write characters, sometimes harder. I identify the most with Daniel and Sam...but sometimes I find them the hardest to write, partly for that reason. I'm comfortable with them, but not objective.

One of the more cringeworthy attempts I did with Daniel was when I made the characters tell the story "I" wanted, not created the scenario and followed his lead as to the "how" naturally. It...worked, but kind of clunkily (imho)

I'm fine with Jack when it's adventure or comedy, but I have a lot more trouble when it's serious. I make him talk to much, or at least I did in a story I'm working on currently. I had to cut out a big chunk of his dialogue and give most of the rest of it to Sam.

Oh, interesting. I'm more comfortable with serious or command Jack, and have a harder time with him in comedy. But yes, there's a danger to having Jack talk too much. He measures what he says more than Teal'c in some ways.

Sam has a very bright sense of humor, but her snark is more underplayed, I can see her voice not being as strong as more overt humorous ones.

Part of it's that I just seem to have trouble writing female characters--beyond weird, I know, what with me being female and all. I have even more trouble writing Janet.

When I was saying about Sam being "the girl", I meant that she's a blond chick and I'm a blond chick and thus I could relate to her but hoped I wouldn't self-insert with her. But I tend to view each character individually--I've never thought about it in terms of writing female characters rather than male. But that gets into a whole 'nother kettle of fish regarding mysogyny in fandom.

Poor Teal'c has a tendency to get wallpapered especially in canon. But he's the perfect straight man and rich with fodder for me. I'm not sure what the "rules" of Teal'c are, but he can be intimidating.

Re: Cam's accent.
I don't focus as much on the accent...although I admit, Cam's voice sounds clear in my head, so it's hard for me to judge. You definitely don't want to caricature that.

Part 2

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I'm not a big Vala fan, although I figure I better find a way to write her. I find season 9/10 and movie Daniel very intriguing, and without writing Vala, I'm very limited in terms of time frame.

You may be surprised writing Vala. The trick is writing her and not "your perception of her" (which is true of all the characters actually, I guess I've finally hit the theme of my own meta).

The first three times I tried writing Vala, I got a lot of venting done, but it didn't sound right. But it was cathartic and got me to focus and trigger on what makes her tick for me...the fourth time trying to write the scene, it finally clicked and it's one of the few definitive "ah-ha" times I've had writing a character. But then again, Vala's not everyone's cup of tea.

Characters seem to be about the same for me, whether I'm writing in their point of view of outside it.

The characterization is always the same, but the tenor of the whole fic will change based on who's pov. Sam may sound different to Teal'c's ear than to Jacob's ear, just because of their relationships with each other. The "flawed narrator" is what helps enrich the story. That's the thing I always try and still flail over in writing--keeping the root characterization accurate while playing with it from alternative perceptions.

My instinct is to write entirely from the third person, and that's what I did for my first 3 stories, or so. I stopped doing that when I realized that no one else wrote that way and that it is more challenging in a lot of ways, too.

Do you mean first person? Writing with an "I" narrator? That's a big discussion on its own (someday I want to write a meta on that). A lot of writers (including some of my early ones) start out with first person narration. It can be a good thing, but it can be difficult because you've got an added obligation for the character's voice as "I" rather than the distance of "he/she" to have the tone abolutely perfect or you've lost the reader. Third person limited is often the standard (but by no means the only) pov to play with in fanfic. (Someday I want to write a second person pov fic.)

And I had a though about Daniel. One of the things that makes him difficult is that he changes not only from season to season, but occasionally, episode to episode. It's one of the things I love most about writing hime, but can lead to terrible errors in characterization if you're,say, watching a lot of season three while writing season eight.

Good point. Daniel's characterization is the most noticably changed over the years. It's true of the others too, but you have to watch when/how you're setting the characters as much as who's doing the talking.

Re: Part 2

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

When I was saying about Sam being "the girl", I meant that she's a blond chick and I'm a blond chick and thus I could relate to her but hoped I wouldn't self-insert with her. But I tend to view each character individually--I've never thought about it in terms of writing female characters rather than male. But that gets into a whole 'nother kettle of fish regarding mysogyny in fandom.

Thinking more on this, I think that really, my problems with Sam and Janet aren't that they're female, it's that Jack and Daniel's approach to things are more similar to my own. I have an easier time putting myself in their shoes.

Do you mean first person? Writing with an "I" narrator? That's a big discussion on its own (someday I want to write a meta on that). A lot of writers (including some of my early ones) start out with first person narration. It can be a good thing, but it can be difficult because you've got an added obligation for the character's voice as "I" rather than the distance of "he/she" to have the tone abolutely perfect or you've lost the reader. Third person limited is often the standard (but by no means the only) pov to play with in fanfic. (Someday I want to write a second person pov fic.)

Boy, I was really unclear! I'm still messed up by the time change and very tired... I meant third person objective or omniscient rather than third person limited. But that statement wasn't true anyway, my first story was from Jack's point of view. I would like to write a team story like that, but it would take a lot of work to do so without distancing the reader.

The characterization is always the same, but the tenor of the whole fic will change based on who's pov. Sam may sound different to Teal'c's ear than to Jacob's ear, just because of their relationships with each other. The "flawed narrator" is what helps enrich the story. That's the thing I always try and still flail over in writing--keeping the root characterization accurate while playing with it from alternative perceptions.

What an interesting point! I'm not sure I do that at all! That's definitely something to think about!

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I'm like Ultranos - Sam comes WAY EASY but sometimes too easy. I have moments where I'm really scared that I'm writing me more than her and our skillsets science-wise aren't identical, but I *get* her on so many levels. (I find Rodney similarly easy. I've known a heck of a lot of Rodneys)

Vala is hit and miss. I've really only solidly written her PoV once, and after a few minutes it came really easy, but she doesn't really speak to me in terms of writing more.

Teal'c I love and I find it really easy to write him from other PoV's. My Teal'c PoV, though, has often been a struggle.

Daniel is my next easiest after Sam. Though I think I maybe make him too teenage angsty (there is some theory that people don't develop emotionally much beyond whatever big childhood trauma they experience...so maybe that's okay :) )

Jonas - um. The bit I've written him has really made me want to write more.

Cam - is very hit and miss. Sometimes he's been really easy and sometimes he's been really hard.

Jack is my enigma. The Jack PoV fics I've written (actually, very few and far between) have often come easily, so long as they popped into my head but trying to force his PoV is the most painful thing ever.

(come to think of it, I'd venture the vast majority of my fics are either Sam or Daniel PoV. Would be interesting to actually calculate)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Yes, you've got a lot to draw from for both Sam and Rodney in characterization. I envy your ability not to have the techno-hump.

The problem with Vala is she's often wittier than I am. :-)

Interesting that you find the outsider perspective easier with Teal'c. I can see that.

Though I think I maybe make him too teenage angsty

Aw, poor Daniel. ;-)

Yay for more Jonas.

IMHO, you struggle with Cam more than you need to because you do have a lot of the core of him naturally (sure, easy for *me* to say). Especially as I completely agree with you about Jack.

(come to think of it, I'd venture the vast majority of my fics are either Sam or Daniel PoV. Would be interesting to actually calculate)

Yeah, part of the impetus for writing this meta was me being shocked how often I do write Teal'c centered or POV fics.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Yes, you've got a lot to draw from for both Sam and Rodney in characterization. I envy your ability not to have the techno-hump.

Hee. It actually has very little to do with science/technical knowledge. That can be faked. I think it's a much more basic knowing how they think. Academic disciplines tend to teach you to think in certain ways and I *know* how science/engineering trains your brain. Daniel is a social scientist, so he's much closer to that kind of brain training than Jack or Teal'c or Cam or Vala, which I imagine is why he's next easiest (plus, well, my parents are anthropologists, my mom did a lot of archaeology, so I've known a lot of those types in my life too)

Vala is wittier indeed. And different in many other ways. Teal'c...I love Teal'c and I really enjoy writing him, I just really struggle with his PoV. His dialogue isn't hard, but I have trouble rummaging inside his head.

Daniel is SUCH AN ANGSTY TEENAGER. (I've noticed themes. I often have him feeling the need for some sort of affirmation his parents would be proud of him. I have no idea why, and it kinda freaked me out when I realized I'd done it more than once)

*raises eyebrow at your thoughts of me and Cam*

I kinda really want to have an LJ meme of seeing what PoV's we've written.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Yes, I combined the academic mindset and experience with personality types with the tech discussion unwittingly. (I think I need food. Brain not working).

*raises eyebrow at your thoughts of me and Cam*

After that sentence, I now have very *different* thoughts of "you and Cam". ;-)

I kinda really want to have an LJ meme of seeing what PoV's we've written.

Oooh, yes. We should make one! Um...um...goes to ponder how (if someone else figures this out...I'll be a lemming).

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

*hands you sammich*

After that sentence, I now have very *different* thoughts of "you and Cam". ;-)

Okay! :P

I think that meme would be the perfect thing for me to do in philosophy class today. *cough*

[petite-stars.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... very interesting post :)

Sam - I find her the easiest by far to write. Whether its because she's my fav character or because she's female I just don't know. I struggle writing the science but I get into her head easier than anyone else.

Daniel - I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with him (for so many reasons...)... I find him easy to write and capture his voice but I worry that my own personal feelings towards his character come through, so I am so careful when I write him and sometimes I think I simplify his complicated character a bit much.

Teal'c - I just can't get into his head. I've tried, but I know writing him is an area I have to improve on...

Jack - Hmmmm... I find his humour hard to capture. But also, he has a depth to his character that I am probably a little too innocent and (dare I say it) young to really write well. I try! But I prefer to write him from another's observations of his character.

Other characters... Jonas (never tried), Cameron (vaguely interested, but find him too simple/not real) ... Vala (can't STAND her in the show, and have only written her once in fic)

Good topic!!

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Sam - I find her the easiest by far to write. Whether its because she's my fav character or because she's female I just don't know. I struggle writing the science but I get into her head easier than anyone else.

Do you think it's because she's your favorite and you tend to get into her head more? Or do you think you write her more and she tends to be your favorite?

It's so cool how different people notice this. Some find favorite = easiest, and others struggle with their favorite. It's an interesting dynamic that I'm noticing with lots of the commenters.

But darn Sam for being so thinky with the science stuff! ;-)

I find him easy to write and capture his voice but I worry that my own personal feelings towards his character come through, so I am so careful when I write him and sometimes I think I simplify his complicated character a bit much.


It's always a struggle to try and make the character sound right in the context and not how you filter him or her.

Teal'c...it is a unique character to deal with...relating to a centenarian alien with a snake in his gut. The process is both exhilarating and intimidating. And I'm noticing how MMV with writing him as well.

But also, he has a depth to his character that I am probably a little too innocent and (dare I say it) young to really write well. I try! But I prefer to write him from another's observations of his character.

I can see that, but it's a very mature observation on your part. And I find you can learn/catch a lot of nuance by having outside observer's take on the character. It helps fuel the insights.

Hee, these are the things I do to procrastinate muse about sometimes.

[petite-stars.livejournal.com]

Do you think it's because she's your favorite and you tend to get into her head more? Or do you think you write her more and she tends to be your favorite?

I think because she's my favourite I think about her more, understand her better and actually wnt to write her character, which makes it easier for me! I create stories that I want to read/imagine... Hmmm

I can see that, but it's a very mature observation on your part. And I find you can learn/catch a lot of nuance by having outside observer's take on the character. It helps fuel the insights.

Yeah, the outsiders observations are easier. I'm not sure I could write what goes on in Jack's head well, but I like to write how others perceive his actions, and 'guess' the thought behind them, as I find it a bit more realistic. I think I might make Jack's thoughts some too feminine otherwise!! lol Not that I'd write about him thinking about taking a bubble bath to relieve his stress mind you...

Hee, these are the things I do to procrastinate muse about sometimes.

Hee! What better way to procrastinate... I mean, muse about than to discuss SG1!

[a-loquita.livejournal.com]

This is a really really interesting discussion you've got going! Go you! :)

I have to say that in general, it often surprises me which character I tend to gravitate toward writing from their POV. It's not necessarily my favorite character on the show, or the one that is closest to me as a person. And I find that very odd?

Also, I think Cam and Vala are among the easiest to write because there's less we know of them, only having 2 season's worth of material. Thus, there's more creative license for you as a writer to fill in what you like and how you like. With 10+ years of canon for all the others, I certainly find that more daunting. Also, I blame some of the inconsistency in the way the writers on the show wrote for Daniel and especially for Sam, which I think sometimes translates into me having difficulty writing from those two characters pov. Difficult to keep someone in character in a fic, when there are moments in episodes that I feel weren't very in character for that person. Know what I mean?

Anyway... I could babble about this forever so maybe I should cut off here :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I have to say that in general, it often surprises me which character I tend to gravitate toward writing from their POV. It's not necessarily my favorite character on the show, or the one that is closest to me as a person. And I find that very odd?

Yes, exactly! What attracts a certain pov or a focus on a character? I go in phases on writing lots of Sam centered fic, and then do a spin on say Teal'c. And it may or may not have bearing on who I'm more interested in reading/exploring/watching as much. Then again, my muse is a strange fickle pita.

Another thing I've noticed is how writing a character turns him/her into a favorite for me because I enjoy watching them tick. Bill Lee was a mere tool to have a narrative voice as outsider to Daniel for me. I didn't even know how to play his character vis a vis Daniel, and now he's one of my secondary roles on the show.

Also, I think Cam and Vala are among the easiest to write because there's less we know of them, only having 2 season's worth of material. Thus, there's more creative license for you as a writer to fill in what you like and how you like. With 10+ years of canon for all the others, I certainly find that more daunting.

Oh, that's interesting! There's more of your own spin you can put on them. I wonder how that could relate to Jonas...or if the situation's not quite comparable.

Also, I blame some of the inconsistency in the way the writers on the show wrote for Daniel and especially for Sam, which I think sometimes translates into me having difficulty writing from those two characters pov. Difficult to keep someone in character in a fic, when there are moments in episodes that I feel weren't very in character for that person. Know what I mean?

I tend to fanwank inconsistencies or adjust my views of Sam and Daniel based on canon experiences. The Sam and Daniel of Season 1 is very different from the Sam and Daniel of Season 10. But I think that's a good point too. What do you focus on for the characters vis a vis the show and how you relate to them as writer and audience member when the show plays differently with your expectations...

And babble away! I'm fascinated with all these different ideas on the subject!

[arafel-sedai.livejournal.com]

My goodness....just reading this post has been intimidating!

I've written a few stories on fanfiction.net and only posted one here... (Most of my little musings have been for Enterprise) So, I doubt I have any right to comment other than the fact that, despite my love/obsession with Stargate, I have a really really hard time writing them at this point.

I can recognize what I like or who I think has tagged the characters; and the really funny thing is I can see one of the characters perfectly in different authors written entirely different ways...but it is still THAT character.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Oh no! It wasn't meant to be intimidating! Possibly boring or nonsensical, but not intimidating. :-D Stop by anytime.

Aw, Enterprise. I'm pretty monofannish in my writing too, although there's plenty of shows I love. I'm not sure what I would think about writing them though. Probably difficult.

I can recognize what I like or who I think has tagged the characters; and the really funny thing is I can see one of the characters perfectly in different authors written entirely different ways...but it is still THAT character.

Yes! Exactly! sg_fignewton was bringing that up upthread in particular. There's certain characterizations we as readers twig on as sounding exactly like the character in our heads, but sometimes even if you put those characterizations side by side with other on-spot authors, they'll differ. It's a fascinating dynamic in fanfic.

[arafel-sedai.livejournal.com]

Well thank you for the invite! I've already discovered your stories, so I've started reading your posts.

I owe my presence here on LJ to a-loquita... She has been very encouraging.

My babble, let me show you it.

[annerbhp.livejournal.com]

Way late to the party, but just had to say this is all very interesting (though now has me second guessing myself. lol) I did the tally and unsurprisingly, I think, Jack is by far the pov I write most, and he's the one I hear most clearly in my head, and he's my favorite character. Rather what I would expect. He's closely followed by Sam, but like many other people have commented before, sometimes I have to sit back with a critical eye and make sure I'm really writing Sam. I'm not convinced I have a handle on her, because she is such an interesting mix of capable and kick ass and analytical, but she's also pretty dented, and emotionally repressed to some extent and can be really, really dumb when it comes to her personal life. And also rather self-conscious to some extent, but only in parts of her life. Daniel came in third in POVs and I like writing him, but again, not sure I nail him. And Teal'c scares me to death. lol

I guess I don't tend to think out my characterizations first, I just write the scenes and dialog (often rather stream of consciousness) and I usually learn how I feel about characters or how I view them when I sit back to revise and find these little kernels hidden in the text, like little prizes at the bottom of the cereal box. Because the harder I try to consciously pin something down, the more illusive it becomes, if that makes sense. It's like one of those water tube things where the harder you try to hold on, the quicker it slips out of your fingers.

Well, there is my babble. Lol. Very interesting topic, Aurora!

Re: My babble, let me show you it.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Never too late to the party. But I'm sorry you're second guessing yourself, you definitely shouldn't (just need to write more).

It's interesting how so many of us wonder about how well we balance Sam. I agree with your summary of her.

I guess I don't tend to think out my characterizations first, I just write the scenes and dialog (often rather stream of consciousness) and I usually learn how I feel about characters or how I view them when I sit back to revise and find these little kernels hidden in the text, like little prizes at the bottom of the cereal box. Because the harder I try to consciously pin something down, the more illusive it becomes, if that makes sense. It's like one of those water tube things where the harder you try to hold on, the quicker it slips out of your fingers.

Oooh, I love this point! Excellent. Yeah, when I'm writing, I don't consciously think things out characterization-wise, I have dialogue/scene ideas/moments pictured, sometimes in a general sense, sometimes specifically from a character pov, and I get into that headspace and roll with it. The journey writing is what makes it fun (like your analogy with the cereal boxes because YES! It IS just like finding the prize.

It's just afterwards I start thinking why/how do I do that? Because characterization is what I love and focus on as reader/viewer as much as if not more than plot. And I wondered if it was all just me. (Frankly, I'm more shocked than anyone that this discussion took flight like it did). And you're right, it can be elusive to try and glomp.

I love your babble! Anytime! *grin*

Re: My babble, let me show you it.

[petite-stars.livejournal.com]

*Peeks head in ...*

I think you have an excellent handle on Sam. For example, your AU fic, String Theory, although not canon Sam is still very recognizable and IMO, very much the Sam character to the core - in terms of repressed emotion and how she deals with her personal life. I know she has a different backstory, but to me, she was still Sam and her actions and thoughts rang true.

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

I haven't got the right 'handle' into SG1 yet... which may explain why the three plotlines swirling maniaclally in my head are all crossovers so that Jim/Ezra/you'really-don't-want-to-know can take major POV stage...

It always comes down to the voice for me, the characters I can get the voice clearest and quirkiest.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Hey crossovers can be a way of easing into figuring out the voices.

More SG-1 fic is always god. :-)

"Clearest and quirkiest." Hee! That's a great philosophy. :-D